A Hero Passes
Motto "New Years Eve" Monday

Israel gets it, why doesn't America?


(Look - the US Army at schools back in 2011) Teachers tour: Giving educators greater insight into military life

Posting THIS & THIS, it was a reasonable response to a few items like, let’s see, 20,000 Marines being fired in Feb, massive unemployment in the US (compounded with at least 20,000 in Feb and sequential months of military personnel being dismissed) nut jobs shooting up schools and the current state of America. I can tell you, being overseas and looking at America, we have some serious issues and other countries are pointing and laughing because they see America falling, fast.

Will there be another school, mall or similar shooting? I bet yes until something like the below is done. When it happens, before all the nay sayers say we should collect everyone’s guns, ask, where there armed guards there? I will bet there wont be any at that location but there will be some at banks and protecting politicians.

Its already been proven that "Gun Free" zones don’t work (ask the shooter during the Batman movie - he specifically looked for a "Gun Free" movie theater). Taking away my second amendment and guns isn’t the answer. Those that think why do you need a certain type of weapon to hunt (shaking head) its not about my right to hunt, the second amendment is about my rights within the constitution and the right to bear arms. If we lose (surrender) the 2nd amendment, the first is right behind it. Lose those and when you look into the mirror you wont see a free man. I’ve already addressed these topics HERE.

There was a lot and many of it good feedback top having armed Vets at schools. Hmmm we have armed guards at banks, at some corporations, in fact most of congress and politicians have beefy armed security. Why doesn’t elementary schools? Why? AND, if politicians like to have guns protecting them, why do they want to take them away from us? Can’t we protect ourselves? Our own families? You see its about rights, not what gun I prefer to hunt with.

Some negatives concerning of the Government getting involved then it turning to shit (go figure) spoil a plan to employee Vets at elementary schools, but after many smart people that commented on the post began to brain storm, there were ways to have this circumnavigated. Perhaps I will start a company that organizes Vets to protect schools??? Anyone want a job??


In order to station armed guards in U.S. schools, an idea advocated by the National Rifle Association, America could tap a ready pool of qualified candidates, Shemtov said. U.S. soldiers returning from overseas are well suited for school protection, he said, and “instead of returning with nothing to do there’s a sea of work” as school guards.

“They’re the elite of the American people,” Shemtov said. “You have people obligated, morally and ethically to the state, to the flag - this is a soldier. It’s a person who went out to do this. All you have to do is give him the appropriate training to do this in the private sector....This is the best of the American people, like they’re the best of the Israeli people. They’re people who took it upon themselves to help others.”


JERUSALEM –  Americans intent on ensuring a school massacre like the one in Newtown, Conn., never happens again could learn a lot from Israel, where the long menu of precautions includes armed teachers.

The Jewish state, which has long faced threats of terrorist strikes in crowded locations including schools, takes an all-of-the-above approach to safety in the classroom. Fences, metal detectors and armed private guards are part of a strategy overseen by the country’s national police. And the idea of armed teachers in the classroom, which stirred much controversy in the wake of the U.S. attack, has long been in practice in Israel, though a minority of them carry weapons today.

Oren Shemtov, CEO of Israel’s Academy of Security and Investigation, noted that attacks typically happen in a matter of minutes, and said gun-toting teachers could, at the very least, buy time for kids to escape while police race to the scene.

“Two (armed) teachers would have kept (the Newtown shooter) occupied for 45 seconds each,” said Shemtov, who is one of 16 people in Israel authorized to train those who instruct school guards.

Shemtov, a veteran of Israel’s security services who has been teaching security methods for 22 years, praised the Newtown teachers who gave their lives trying to protect children, but lamented the fact that they weren’t able to shoot back when gunman Adam Lanza opened fire, killing 20 children and six adults before shooting himself in the head as police converged on Sand Hook Elementary School.

“We need to give them the tools to be heroes,” Shemtov said. “No one wants to be a hero. They did what they had to do.”

Security consultant Dov Zwerling, an Israeli counter-terror police veteran, believes armed guards are crucial for school security.

“From what I know of almost all of the active shooter events in the U.S., almost all of them conclude with the shooter taking his own life the moment he is challenged by the first officer on the scene,” Zwerling said. “Why not challenge him earlier?”

Shemtov said the two most critical keys to protecting schools are armed guards and armed teacher response teams. But, as in the U.S., the idea of teachers carrying guns raised some objections in Israel, he said.

“At one point the Interior Ministry mandated that a certain percentage of teachers be armed but because, over time, fewer teachers carried weapons, for a number of reasons, including philosophical objections, and due to increased terror attacks, private guards were mandated at all schools," he said.

School security in Israel is an extension of the comprehensive approach authorities there take to protecting all public places. According to National Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld, police work with the Israeli Defense Force and the private security companies that protect such places as malls, bus stations, schools and universities. A centralized command system allows for quick dissemination of intelligence to every police officer and private guard in the field, he said.

A collective effort among police, private guards and teachers requires that the civilians involved in armed security receive rigorous training. Private guards undergo at least three weeks of advanced training with a 9mm weapon and guards employed for school protection must pass criminal, mental and physical checks.

“A long course, at a minimum of 40-60 hours, is needed so that the instructor can feel out the student,” said Shemtov, noting that not all teachers or guards are suited for school protection. “Course candidates should be a certain age, emotionally mature, of a certain mentality, physically healthy - and from there move to training.”

In order to station armed guards in U.S. schools, an idea advocated by the National Rifle Association, America could tap a ready pool of qualified candidates, Shemtov said. U.S. soldiers returning from overseas are well suited for school protection, he said, and “instead of returning with nothing to do there’s a sea of work” as school guards.

“They’re the elite of the American people,” Shemtov said. “You have people obligated, morally and ethically to the state, to the flag - this is a soldier. It’s a person who went out to do this. All you have to do is give him the appropriate training to do this in the private sector....This is the best of the American people, like they’re the best of the Israeli people. They’re people who took it upon themselves to help others.” by Greg Tepper


Here are  some comments & discussion points from my post (yes I’m a guest author there as well) at BlackFive.net


NJSoldier said...

Won't happen. I had the same thought after 911 and Beslan. Plenty of Vets, Reservists, shooters, and hunters in my town. With an call for unpaid volunteers, we could easily post an armed guard at the town school every day school is in session.

Background check and train them all you want, I would spend a vacation day a month to participate.

Reply December 19, 2012 at 07:29 AM


Theshitpiler.blogspot.com said...

It would become a large Federal Agency like TSA and Vets would have to apply and be screened to see if they were qualified to actually look at, touch and handle weapons, trusted to have them, and then be trained by specialists hired by the new agency who were probably never in the miltary, and only learned to shoot a few months prior.

All the local political hacks left and right would "Hook up" their families and donor's kids who needed jobs, and the vets would be at the end of the line again. Well, because they are just to military like and can't be trusted not to wig out, just ask Big Sis Napolitano, them vets are a threat remember?

The supervisors would be the displaced substandard fed employees from all the other agencies that wanted them gone.

The SEIU would want in on this too. It would be in the contract that every magazine change would be followed be followed by a 15min break, regardless of active combative status.

Reply December 19, 2012 at 07:58 AM


Froggy said in reply to Theshitpiler.blogspot.com...

Exactly correct. People love seeing our troops carrying a gun and standing in front of stuff overseas, they won't like seeing that here. It might make their tummys upset. Better to just ban all guns and wait for the peace and love to follow.

Reply December 19, 2012 at 09:22 AM


arlo said in reply to Theshitpiler.blogspot.com...

I would generally be for this if the vets wouldn't carry those scary looking guns unless the clip had 10 rounds or less. I would also require them to pass a union sponsored test on environmental/nutritional issues.

Reply December 20, 2012 at 07:07 AM


butt neckid said in reply to Theshitpiler.blogspot.com...

I would think being on the big dyke on a bike Nappyheadedtuna krazyassed vets list would be the best recommendation a krazyassed vet could have...why???...

*well when he snaps it's one shot one kill...I don't wanna suffer no mo'...

but yes vets would make good choices...after vetting...unlike the the presidunce(not yet vetted)...

* = sarcasm but the libbys won't unnerstan' it...so I had to point it out...

Reply December 21, 2012 at 01:44 PM


Durka-Durka said...

I'd do it in a heartbeat, but being a veteran who saw a doctor one time about ptsd, I'm positive no liberal or sheep would want me in a school. In fact, I'm betting on the new gun ban that's comingthat there will be specific language against vets with ptsd.

Reply December 19, 2012 at 12:52 PM


Theshitpiler.blogspot.com said in reply to Durka-Durka...

They will probably get the Vets with TBI also, just to be on the safe side, and if you have both well your screwed.

Reply December 19, 2012 at 08:03 PM


Maj Pain said...

Ya, I don't think it will happen either, makes way too much sense and then the jackassery as stated above would happen with everyone dipping their hands into it. Perhaps all of the bs could be avoided if they volunteered however, again, the gov wouldn't stand for that as our nations heroes "can't be trusted".....WTF happened to America?

Reply December 19, 2012 at 05:05 PM


PALADIN said in reply to Maj Pain...

What happened to America ? Barack Hussein Obama (Obamugabe) and the Liberal Thug Machine.

It's a great idea ! Talked about it on the radio yesterday here in Maryland, and there was only one LIBERAL oxygen thief who phoned in and did'nt like it.
But like the above comments suggest, when you have a worthless piece of dogs$%t as a leader , who's own Homeland Security Sec branded veterans as extremeists , i can't see it happening either.

Reply December 19, 2012 at 07:35 PM


C_Bob said in reply to Maj Pain...

"WTF happened to America?"

Truly. TWO helpings of obama? And my thoughts these last oh, 3 years or so. I thought I woke up in an alternate universe a couple years ago. 92% serious.

I would volunteer to do this in a semi-retirement situation. Like volunteer firemen. In a heartbeat. Get enough of us, we do it 4 hours a day. No one gets tired and sloppy. Plenty of communication protocol and backup.

We have 'greeters' at most large stand alone retail venues. Of course, those people aren't armed but they aren't just there to say Hi to Grandma Biden either. It's not much of a stretch to employ America to safeguard something so precious as the children of parents who are by and large Working and paying taxes, being part of the solution, (let alone just being children for God's Sake !)

We've come a Long F way from 1960.

Reply December 19, 2012 at 10:50 PM


butt neckid said in reply to Maj Pain...

SIR...the 60's...SIR!!!...

Reply December 21, 2012 at 01:46 PM


C_Bob said in reply to butt neckid...

;-] Good God Man! As long as we're in this alternate universe, may I please just go back to 1960, then when 1969 comes along, cycle right on back to 1960 at 31-Dec-1969 11:59:59:99. oggggghhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Reply December 21, 2012 at 04:49 PM


Msimon said...

No reason whatsoever this is a bad idea. Yet, this poster won't sell it. How about that guy in a nice blazer, he helps with safely unloading the bus, makes certain the grounds are secure, maybe helps in lunch, and maybe takes a class if a teacher has to leave in an emergency. He or she is an all round help in the school, and oh yea, under that jacked, well hidden, is a gun.

No one wants us to beat our chests, they want protection. Fix the problem and you become the solution. If you want to score political points, that is called indulgence...

Reply December 20, 2012 at 06:53 AM


arlo said...

I think that used to be the job description of a Principal. I never saw my HS Principal carrying a gun, but it wouldn't have surprised me one bit. Of course this was back when I'd occasionally bring a 12 gauge in my pickup if we were going hunting after school, and guys learned about capitalism from trading pocket knives, and every swinging dick in school knew how to lay a bead with an arc welder, and . If there were any mass shootings in a school back then, somehow I missed them.

Note: My apologies to my 5th grade English teacher Mrs. Vivian Brown (RIP) for that intentional run-on sentence above. I see an image of her sitting at her desk with her planed-down 32" Louisville Slugger "Board of Education" every time I catch myself in a grammatical faux pas.

Reply December 20, 2012 at 07:58 AM


GaBlueStarMom said in reply to arlo...

When I was in Middle school we had the principal and they we had the Asst. Principal who was really the Enforcer, and yes he had baseball bat at his disposal!

Reply December 20, 2012 at 09:52 AM


butt neckid said in reply to arlo...

COACH RUSSEL(rip) at my high skool was called a cheek lifter with his fiberglass bb filled "board". started low and fast, you wound up on your tiptoes, cheeks lifted near the shoulder blades...problem solved, for that day at least...circa late 50's early 60's...

Reply December 21, 2012 at 01:56 PM


GaBlueStarMom said...

I am repulsed by the idea of even needing armed guards at school. That being said, I don't think arming teachers is the best thing either. It takes lots of training to be able to keep your head in a high stress situation. I LOVE the idea of Vets however filling the role of protectors. Unfortunately is makes too much sense and the government would become involved because they have to CONTROL everything and then it would all go to s**t!

Reply December 20, 2012 at 09:58 AM


arlo said...

I can imagine some guy showing up at the classroom door with a Glock back in the early '70s, and within 60 seconds Mrs Brown would have him at the blackboard berating his inability to diagram a prepositional phrase. She was Chuck Norris with an English degree. I doubt she ever had a moment of indecision in her life.

Reply December 20, 2012 at 11:02 AM


J'hn1 said...

Some of the posters have mentioned one of the problems.
HR Directors, especially those with gender and/or racial grievance degrees usually won't hire vets especially those with reserve responsibilities. And that means all recent service.
School boards could change that by a moratorium on all school hiring that is not former armed service. Not just one armed guard outside hoping to notice something and shoot first, but lots of active reservists backed up by nonReserve veterans.
Think Israeli model. Look at how many teachers are armed.
If a particular HR weenie can't meet the staffing needs with that criteria in place, fire them. I bet they wouldn't have to have even a hundred of them fired nationwide before the rest found out how to advertise and obtain veteran applications for employment in the schools.
Then think about the difference between Occupy sympathizers as role models and teachers for our kids, versus Veterans and active Reservists.

Reply December 20, 2012 at 01:42 PM


Maj Pain said...

Gang- All great points & I appreciate the comments. So I open it up for brainstorming. How would a society do this, without the Gov" getting involved. One thought is a pure volunteer organization like that of the previously mentioned,Israeli model or something like a Guardian Angel (http://www.your-krav-maga-expert.com/Guardian-Angels.html) organization??? C'mon people, think!! If it was all volunteer and the "volunteers" stayed off of school property, like just across the street which would still be a visual deterrence, it would be hard for the big gov to start mandating. They could even apply for the same job requirements for substitute teachers and could assist in augmenting the school if a teacher had to leave early etc. (protection + force multiplier)

Reply December 21, 2012 at 12:56 AM


Smorgasbord said...

The only problem I have with armed security in the schools, is that any kid coming to the school to kill others, is going to take out the security officials first. Security won’t know it is going to happen until they are shot, because they see the kids every school day, and the killer could walk right up to them like they have many times before. I would rather let any school official who wants to, and passes stringent qualifications, carry a concealed gun, but not tell who has them and who doesn’t. It wouldn’t make any sense to advertise who to shoot first.

Reply December 21, 2012 at 01:42 AM


Liberal Civvy said...

I'm a bit late to this thread, but I concur with Smorgasbord - all of these acts had been premeditated and researched for weeks or months. A single armed guard is simply the first target to be taken out under those circumstances. Two guards, in different locations, offers a bit more resiliency, but still not enough since one getting shot will alert the other to danger, but not tell him who the enemy is - it engages a defensive posture and readiness, but doesn't do much to lock down the threat.

Simply put, someone with initiative and months of planning will always be able to take out at least one soft target before any defensive assets mobilize. And, in all likelihood, will generally take out several. Putting veterans in schools in visible 'security positions' sadly won't do much to stop this sort of violence.

Reply December 21, 2012 at 01:16 PM


butt neckid said in reply to Liberal Civvy...

you may be correct...but it could help...

Reply December 21, 2012 at 02:09 PM


Liberal Civvy said in reply to butt neckid...

Oh, I do think it could help - the problem, however, is one of expectations. People like to make statements like "If guns weren't so readily available, these sorts of things wouldn't happen!" (wrong), and, from the Right, "If we have armed veterans in schools -or armed teachers- this wouldn't happen!" (also wrong). Both, in different ways, may reduce the likelihood of mass murders, but the first certainly isn't a comprehensive solution, and I'm fairly convinced the second isn't either.

If it's presented as a small step to help, that's great. If it's presented as a cure to this sort of thing then the backlash against it will be even more fierce when, inevitably, a shooting happens despite the presence of an armed veteran. At the end of the day, nothing will ever prevent all of these sorts of events - it's about, like most things, mitigating risk. In theory, armed veterans do that, but I think that in practice the actual net effect is going to be fairly small.

Presented with lowered expectations as part of a larger plan, and I could see it being useful, certainly. The negatives -the general sense many would have about having armed men at their schools- also needs to be considered, though.

Reply December 21, 2012 at 02:35 PM


butt neckid said...

SMORG...rotating shifts...locations...radio comm check on non sked basis...could help if the manpower pool is large enuff...but I don't have the field savvy you dogbreath doughboys an' leatherneck devildogs do...but I could act as a go-fer if needed...

Reply December 21, 2012 at 02:08 PM


CAS6 said...

I'll copy and paste what I said on This Ain't Hell:

With teachers complaining about their salaries nonstop since I was in elementary school, there is no way school districts will pay these guys enough to make it worth their time or effort. Such a low-action job will certainly fail to attract the high-speed Ranger types you envision, especially for such low pay. Even private security firms, like one I worked for after graduation (as an armed guard, no less) don’t pay enough for a married guy to live on. I got a huge pay cut going from an ROTC cadet working for campus police to a private, armed security guard for the largest security company in this area of the state. It was a struggle to stay awake at the jobs I worked at, too, more boring than any CQ duty I have ever done.

If this happened, I predict the retention rate would be abysmally low, and schools would have to revert to the stereotypical security guard (75% of my post-graduation coworkers), fat, unmotivated, and untrustworthy. That, to me, would have be an overwhelming negative. Not to mention the huge “Shoot me first!” sign on a solitary security officer.

I think a far more sensible idea is to hire more veterans as teachers! Make it easier for veterans to get their teaching licenses. Make programs like Troops to Teachers more accessible. It would go far in portraying veterans as normal people, and hopefully shake kids out of their entitlement mindsets because they had teachers who used to work for a living. I know that when I walk into a classroom and kids see my haircut and bearing I have instant credibility. Also; offer an incentive to teachers who attend tactical classes. Find the sheepdogs who are already educators and empower them. I think having intelligently armed teachers is a better idea than one security guard posted at the front of the school. It’s a lot harder to dodge three armed teachers when you don’t know who they are than one uniformed security guard.

I’m a semi-pro substitute teacher (in the reserves now, working on my teaching license) and I carry every day. It’s totally legal here, nobody knows, it doesn’t make me a target, and I don’t cost any extra. I do a walkthrough of every school I teach, pay attention to OAKOC, and have a plan to get everyone out alive. Not only do I carry a handgun everywhere, but I have an IFAK in my bag, an idea I think people overlook. It shouldn’t just be about defense and offense, it should also include TCCC.

Reply December 22, 2012 at 12:12 PM



Maj Pain

Teachers learn how to use guns in Utah - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9768933/Teachers-learn-how-to-use-guns-in-Utah.html

Big Sam

I'll take a Job Major, I cant eat "Health Care"


We should offer school security jobs for all good conduct Marines leaving the USMC. Our schools and universities would be much more secure with armed Marines safeguarding them.


Just a thought: Take a gander at how the Patriot Guard deals with the loonies Baptist kurch (no way I'm calling it a 'church'). Many PGR are good friends, ride together, many are armed and an unknown amount are vets.
Imagine a ring, even a few, of those dudes (and ladies of course) around a school...guessing even a crazy would go elsewhere...

Maj Pain

All - Good comments, and yes ML, Im in the Patriot Guard as well :)


I know many of you have heard this before. But when I grow up we never had
this kind of gun viliants, as a matter of fact we used to have gun clubs in
shools. So what happened over 71 years I've been on this earth? To tell you
the truth I have no idea, their must be a thousand reasons why, and a
thousand reasons why not. The only thing I am sure of is, its almost
impossible to go back to the past.


How is it that 20,000 Marines are being fired and the president and all of Washington is getting a raise? Elections have consequences don't they?? http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/28/What-Fiscal-Cliff-VP-Biden-Gov-t-Workers-Getting-Raises


Hollywood frauds!

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